Written by Ron Harris
16 November 2017

17ferrigno-aaronchest

Double Chest Smash

Jose Raymond & Aaron Clark Talk Pec Wrecking

 

Soon, Jose Raymond and Aaron Clark will be standing onstage together at the Ferrigno Legacy contest. Both have truly exceptional genetics, yet building the chest has always presented a challenge to both men as well. I’ve always felt that you can learn far more from someone who has had to overcome obstacles to reach a goal than you can from a person whose results just came to easily. That’s why it was a blessing that we brought Jose and Aaron together back in May 2013 to train chest and swap war stories about how they learned the best techniques for packing on meat to their pecs.

 

What was your early chest training like? Looking back, were you doing things right? What exercises did you focus on? Did you gain size and strength equally, or one more so than the other?

Jose

“I had my older brother Tito to guide me when I started out, but back then I trained for football. I did the flat bench, incline bench and a lot of push presses. At the end of our summer training, we had a bench press test. I did 315 at the age of 14 in sophomore year of high school, and by senior year I was doing 350. I actually did 330 with a pause in a bench meet when I was 17. Strength came first for a couple of reasons. Number one, my genetics were geared more toward power. Even to this day, people tell me I should have been a powerlifter. But mainly, I had no concept of the mind-muscle connection, and in fact I wasn't even concerned about building the chest muscles. Even when I got into bodybuilding, I found that my chest and arms grew much easier than my chest, and they do to this day.”

 

Aaron

“I definitely wasn't doing things optimally, but who is as a kid? Chest day was the highlight of the week, and the bench press was my holy grail. It's an ego lift for most young guys, and as a kid you tend to measure your progress in general by how much you can bench press. So of course I was focused on the weight above all else. That all changed for me after I did the Teen Nationals and tore one pec, then the other! That was a huge turning point for me. Until then, I was sure that bigger weights were the only way to bigger muscles. From then on, I started to learn how to pace myself and train smarter. Because I tend to be arm and shoulder dominant, my chest has always lagged behind them in development. That's why the pec tear was especially devastating to me. Here it was a weak body part, and look what I did to it! I think building the chest tends to be more of a problem for guys like me who tend to be more ectomorphs. I see a lot of mesomorph types with that big barrel chest that just seems to come easily for them.”

 

In this photo shoot, I see you both did the flat barbell bench press. This is a movement many bodybuilders at your level don't do at all anymore out of fear of injury. Do you still use it in your training? If so, do you take extra steps to make sure it's safe for you?

Jose

“First of all, this was a photo shoot. A lot of times in these shoots, we do what looks best for pictures, and it may or not reflect what we do in our actual training. I do flat bench, but not very often. The incline barbell press has been my key pressing motion for a while now. That being said, if you are going to flat bench, you can't go into it with fear. Take your safety measures, of course, but go after it without fear holding you back. When I do flat bench, I always warm up thoroughly and it's never my first exercise. It's going to be my second, third or maybe even my last exercise for chest. I don't want to go as heavy on it as I possibly can. Right now my main priority is upper chest thickness, and inclines are what are slowly making that happen.”

 

Aaron

“I rotate the bench press into my workouts occasionally, but I never do it first and go as heavy as I could. Being strong on it can be dangerous. At a little over 210 pounds, I did 405 for 8-10 good reps. But after my pec injuries, I knew it would be stupid to go that heavy again. I start with incline presses as my main pressing motion, then do the bench press later in the workout so I can get the benefits from it, yet stay safe.”

 

You also take different grips, with Jose inside of shoulder width on the bar, and Aaron a bit wider than shoulder width.

Jose

“I used a wider grip for many years, and I found it was putting more and more stress on my shoulder joints as time went by. I also noticed I could never get the squeeze I was looking for with my grip out that far, especially in my inner pecs. Through trial and error, I found myself bringing my grip in a little bit more every so often. That allowed me to feel the bench press more in my chest, and less in my shoulders; plus my shoulder joints weren't getting beat up as much. Now my grip is where you see it, a little bit inside of shoulder width. Notice I also keep my elbows close to my sides instead of flared out and away from my torso.”

 

Aaron

“As for the wider grip, I don't know if it's anatomically correct or not, but I am able to get a deeper stretch of the pecs that way. You need to be careful with the negative and control it, though, because you are putting the tendons in a more precarious position going wider. In the end, everyone needs to try various types of grips and find the one that they feel works best. Don't worry about what me or anyone else does.”

 

Aaron, I notice you also use a thumbless grip on the bar, which is also referred to as a false grip or even a suicide grip. Why do you prefer that grip?

Aaron

“I want to make it clear that I don't recommend that thumbless grip unless you have a very secure grip that way, and pretty strong wrists. Otherwise, you risk having the bar roll out of your hands, and that's just not a good thing. But if you can do it safely, I find that grip allows you to get more chest involvement out of the press for guys like me who have trouble with that.”

 

Jose, what do you think about that grip?

Jose

“It's not safe. Not only that, but when you talk to any powerlifter about the bench press, the first thing he will tell you is to squeeze the hell out of that bar. That gives you the strongest connection from your hands and wrists, to your forearms, to your upper arms, and finally your shoulders and chest. That also allows you to keep all your joints tighter and the movement is that much more precise. I would personally advise against a false grip on the barbell bench press or incline barbell press.”

 

The incline dumbbell press— how valuable is this exercise to your chest training? Do you see it as the same movement as the incline barbell, or does each offer unique advantages?

Jose

“I don't do these in the same workout as the incline barbell press, but I will do them with incline dumbbell flyes. The bar and the dumbbell press are similar exercises. You can obviously load more weight on the bar, but the dumbbells ensure that both sides are working equally hard. The only trouble with dumbbells is that once you've built a decent amount of strength, those huge dumbbells are going to be tough to get up into position to start your set. Whether I do my inclines with a bar or dumbbells also has to do with where I'm training. There's a gym where I still train a bunch of clients at, and the dumbbells only go to 100 pounds. I can do those all day. I've posted clips on Facebook where I've done the 150s for 18 reps. On the bar, I have done 405 for six to seven reps, and can get 315 for 17 even when I'm not at my strongest.

 

Aaron

“I do both dumbbell and barbell incline presses. A lot of times I will even do a Hammer Strength incline press too. The dumbbell inclines will come last every time, though, because the gym I train at only has dumbbells up to 125 pounds. If I did those first, I would be doing a lot of reps. It's fine, because once you get into very heavy dumbbells, you need someone to hand one off to you to start; and I train alone most of the time. But of those three, I feel the dumbbell incline press is the most effective for me. You get the most complete range of motion and I am able to get the best contractions."

 

You did dips in this shoot. Is this an exercise you do a lot of in your actual chest training?

Jose

“I do dips at times. I did those last week. For me, they work best at the end of a chest workout as part of a superset. Last week I was going right from dumbbell flyes to dips. My bodyweight is enough at that point in the workout. I'm just doing them for a good squeeze and pump. If I did dips at the start of the workout, I don't even want to know how many I could do. A lot!”

 

Aaron

“I do dips a few times a week, and not just on chest day. Sometimes I will do them at the end of a shoulder or arm workout too. It's just a great exercise to open up the chest and give it a good stretch, plus you also stretch the shoulders and triceps. It's a good finishing movement on chest day for me, because I don't do decline presses. Dips are just as good if not better than declines. You just need to be careful with dips, because they put your shoulders in a vulnerable position. I cringe any time I see some guy with two or three plates strapped on to a belt and struggling and squirming. If you can't keep your form very tight, you don't want to add extra weight on.”

 

What is your opinion on using flyes as an isolation movement for the chest? Should bodybuilders do these instead of using a pec deck or cable crossover, or in addition to?

Jose

“For years and years, I never liked flyes because I couldn't figure out how to get the right feeling in my pecs from them. But I persisted and mastered them, and now I love flyes. Machines and cables aren't the same because they don't require any mastery. With the dumbbells, you have to learn how to balance them and get that good quality contraction and stretch on every rep. I don't go too heavy on these. 60-65 pounds is all it takes for me.”

 

Aaron

“It all depends on how I have arranged my exercises for that day. I don't really feel flyes are essential the way that some guys do. But ideally, I like to do both a flye and a machine or cable. I do like the incline dumbbell flye, but I will usually finish with a pec deck. You have more control with the machine, and I find it's easier to keep my delts out of the movement. Plus, you can do things like drop sets and partial reps with a machine or cables that just aren't suited to dumbbells.”

 

In what ways has your chest training changed over the years?

Jose

“I've certainly got a lot stronger, but more importantly I've developed a much better connection with my chest. It used to be about pushing as much weight as I could for the hell of it. That did not do much for my actual chest development. Now it's all about how much I can get out of every rep, every set. I do things now like pausing reps at the bottom to increase the tension on my chest, or slowing down the negatives. I also have to say I warm up a whole lot more now than I used to, mainly out of necessity. My joints are already pretty beat-up after 30 years of training, so I need to minimize any further damage and stay injury-free so I can keep improving.”

 

Aaron

“My chest training has gotten a lot smarter. I've learned how to press with the chest instead of my shoulders, and get the type of quality contractions it takes to stimulate growth. Some guys just move heavy weights from point A to point B, and I think that's a good way to get banged up in the long term. I've only been training for 10 years, but I already realize I need to put some thought into everything I do in the gym or else there could be repercussions. Every exercise I do needs to be justified, not just a random assortment. I've also learned that you need to tailor your exercises and even the way you perform those exercises to your own individual structure.”

 

Are you happy with your chest right now? If not, what would you like to improve about it?

Jose

“I want a lot more thickness, especially up top. I want deeper striations too. It's weird that I have deep striations in my glutes, my quads, my triceps and even my abs— but not in my pecs. I want that so my chest has that 3-D look to it.”

 

Aaron

“No, I am nowhere near satisfied with my chest as it is right now. People have pointed out that I need more upper chest thickness in particular. The problem is, I'm already near the upper end of the 212 class, and they also say I need more leg mass. So I need to be very careful to improve those areas without gaining much scale weight. But I will get more pop to my chest, and it's still a favorite body part of mine to train. I think it is for just about everyone.”

 

Jose’s Training Split

Sunday:            Light back and chest

Monday:           Heavy quads, light hams and calves

Tuesday:           a.m. – Cardio, abs, posing                   

                        p.m. – Chest and triceps, 8-10 supersets lateral raises and rear delts

Wednesday:      Back and biceps

Thursday:          Shoulders and abs

Friday:              Heavy hams, light quads and calves

Saturday:          Arms

 

Jose’s Chest Routine

Pec Flye Machine or Cable Crossover    5 x 12-15          

Incline Barbell Press                              4 x 15, 12, 10, 10

Hammer Strength Decline Press             3 x 12, 1 triple drop set of 10, 10, 10 reps

Incline Dumbbell Flyes                           4 x 12

 

Aaron's Training Split

Day 1: Hamstrings and some quads

Day 2: Chest

Day 3: Arms

Day 4: Quads

Day 5: Delts

Day 6: Back

Day 7: OFF*

 

Off days aren't actually scheduled, but are taken as needed. Abs and calves are typically done twice a week.

 

Aaron's Chest Routine

Hammer Strength Incline Press               3 x 8-12

Incline Barbell Press                              3 x 8-12

Incline Dumbbell Press                          3 x 8-12

Flat Dumbbell Press                              3 x 8-12

Flat Dumbbell Flyes                              3 x 8-12

Cable Crossovers on Incline Bench         3 x 8-12

Standard Cable Crossovers                    3 x 8-12

 

Aaron's Contest History

2008 Southern States                            Teen Light Heavyweight, Second

2008 Teenage Nationals                         Light Heavyweight, Second

2010 Maryland East Coast Classic         Heavyweight and Overall Champion

2012 USA Championships                     Heavyweight Winner

2013 IFBB New York Pro                       Fourth place, 212 division

2014 IFBB New York Pro                       Winner

2014 IFBB Arnold Classic                      Third Place, 212

2014 IFBB Mr. Olympia                          Sixth Place, 212

2015 IFBB Arnold Classic                      Fourth Place, 212

2015 IFBB Texas Pro                             Second Place, 212

2015 IFBB Mr. Olympia                          14th Place, 212

 

 

Jose’s Pro Record                               

2009 IFBB New York Pro*                                  Eighth Place

2009 IFBB Europa Super Show                          Ninth Place

2009 IFBB Atlantic City Pro                                Second Place

2009 IFBB 202 Showdown at Mr. Olympia           Sixth Place

2010 IFBB Orlando Pro                                      Third Place

2010 IFBB New York Pro                                   Second Place

2010 IFBB Tampa Bay Pro                                 Winner

2010 IFBB Battle of Champions, Hartford           Winner

2010 IFBB 202 Showdown at Mr. Olympia           Fourth Place

2010 IFBB Sacramento Pro                                Second Place                          

2011 IFBB New York Pro                                   Winner

2011 IFBB 202 Showdown at Mr. Olympia           Third Place

2012 IFBB Optimum Classic, Shreveport            Winner

2012 IFBB British Grand Prix                              Third Place, 212

2012 IFBB New York Pro Championships           Third Place, 212

2012 IFBB 212 Showdown at Olympia                Fourth Place                

2012 IFBB Sheru Classic, India                           Second Place, 212

2013 IFBB New York Pro                                   212 Winner

2013 IFBB Toronto Pro                                      212 Winner

2013 IFBB 212 Showdown at Mr. Olympia           Fourth Place, 212

2013 IFBB Phoenix Pro                                      Seventh Place, 212

2014 IFBB Arnold Classic                                  Fifth Place, 212

2014 IFBB New Zealand Pro                               212 Winner

2014 IFBB Korean Pro                                       Second Place, 212

2014 IFBB 212 Showdown at Mr. Olympia           Third Place

2014 IFBB Phoenix Pro                                      212 Winner

2014 Prague Pro                                               Third Place, 212

2015 IFBB Arnold Classic                                  212 Winner

2015 IFBB Showdown at Mr. Olympia                 Second Place

2015 IFBB Korean Pro                                       Second Place, 212

2015 IFBB Prague Pro                                       212 Winner

2015 IFBB Phoenix Pro                                      Second Place

2016 IFBB Arnold Classic                                  Second Place, 212

2016 IFBB 212 Mr. Olympia                                Third Place

2016 IFBB Korean Grand Prix                             Fourth Place

2017 IFBB Arnold Classic                                  Third Place, 212

2017 IFBB 212 Mr. Olympia                                Third Place

2017 IFBB Asian Grand Prix, Korea                    Third Place

2017 IFBB Kuwait Pro                                        Second Place

 

*All pro shows except 2015 Phoenix Pro were in the 212 division, which was limited to 202 pounds prior to 2012.

 

 

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